Question: Usually how the court cases take place ? Like how much time is allocated , do we get chance to talk in court ? Whats the normal court procedure ? I heard the judge dont even look at the person and ask two questions and give other hearing date
Yup. Broadly correct. Bench clerk will call the case in open court, judge will take the case file from bench clerk, look at case file, then at advocates of both parties, then into the case file, and at bench clerk from time to time. In the meantime, one or both advocates will say something to judge about the case, and before you realize what was said, the next date may be given and pronounced by bench clerk.
Myth and Reality of courts and court procedures
Each court is different, but some broad points will remain the same across all courts whether criminal (498a case)s. E.g.
- People go with high hopes that they will be able to share their âMann ki Baatâ in front of judge, explain that the whole case is false, that they are carrying a clinching evidence in their bag which once put forth in front of the court, it will be disprove the whole case. Unfortunately, the system of justice works in a very systematic way, where there is no scope for any âshort cutsâ no matter how good the evidence you may have with you.
Sequence of any court case
- Complaint (criminal), or Petition (family court/DV). When wife files DV or divorce case, she is petitioner. If you file divorce case, you are petitioner.
- Written statement, or commonly called objection to be filed by respondent (not in criminal)
- Frame of issues (civil), framing of charges (criminal)
- Trial â Evidence by witnesses, then cross-exam of witnesses by respondentâs lawyer
- Evidence by respondent, then his/her cross exam.
- Arguments.
- Order/Judgment
- Appeal/Revision etc in same or higher court if any party challenges the order
Sequence of steps in an IPC 498A trial
The sequence of a 498A trial has been given in good detail and with reference to the various CrPC sections at link below. People can read that, and having read that, should look at the practical sequence of steps in a 498a trial below.
- Wife files FIR in police station with allegations like âI was not given foodâ, âwe gave x lakhs in dowryâ, blah blahâŚ
-
Police takes case, and immediately arrests husband, parents, family dog, and relatives who are the accused in the FIR.Police after the Jul 2014 judgment by SC, sends notice to accused and follows CrPC 41, 41A procedure. That seems to be happening in most cases. - Person may apply anticipatory bail before FIR, and the AB in most cases may get rejected because of a chicken and egg problem. Judge says no need of AB without FIR, but if the FIR was filed, then person wonât be able to reach the court to apply AB, he would have been arrested already!
- Person may apply for regular bail.
- In case of IPC 406 alongwith 498A, courts especially in Delhi may put condition to deposit few lakhs to get bail. That scam continues.
- In Bihar, judges will grant bail with condition to pay monthly maintenance to wife! That is another tradition in progress over there.
- Chargesheet filed by police. Maximum time is 90 days, but in practice heard that itâs not been filed even after 2 years. My guess is itâs because of some mediation having been ordered due to multiple cases apart from IPC 498a case. That is another grand tradition of Indian courts of mixing civil and criminal cases together so fluidly.
- After chargesheet accused appears before judge for Hear before charge (HBC) or framing of charges. Instead for 4-6 hearings, there will be nothing done. Very likely that in at least 1 hearing, court asks the accused (you) whether you have got a compromise?
To be continuedâŚ
Sequence of steps in a CrPC 125 maintenance trial
- Wife files petition to court that âI was not given foodâ, âI was locked in the bathroomâ, etc etc standard templates available at all lawyers desks for such wives.
- Summons sent to respondent (husband) by court.
- Some husbands avoid summons thinking in typical Indian style that this is a smart way to avoid this problem, or itâs going to help in future.
- Husband takes summons and goes to court, with lawyer.
- Lawyer files vakalatnama, which is basically a document where client (you) gives authority to lawyer to do everything on your behalf as if he/she were you, and even sell your soul and recover the proceeds to pay for lawyerâs fees if it ever comes to that. Ok maybe not that, but you get the idea.
I have filed divorce on basis of adultery, cruelty in family court. Respondent remained present till 2 years from date of filing but was not able to file reply objection and hence her reply stage was closed.Till date she has not applied for opening of reply stage and any other application. I submitted my evidences. As she has not taken any objection / submit reply, will it have adverse effect on her case and what. Can she take my cross examinations etc.Thanking you all in advance.
This topic has to do with civil procedure code. Not filing objections may help but probably she can still cross-examine and lead arguments. Your evidence still has to be good to prove your allegations. Check with lawyer, or read civil procedure code about what happens if respondent doesn’t submit objections.
I have been married since 20 months and in that my wife stayed with me around only for 4 months all together with breaks in between. since i stay in other place separately from my parents i have did my best to fulfill her needs and did my best as a husband and now we have a child of 6 months and my wife n daughter stays in her parents home since last 1 year. My wife is Well educated (Post Graduate) and still is not concerned about me and my family more over her own better future too. she and her whole family is dramatic and have playing a lot and not letting her to live with me and now a days she is not allowing me to see my daughter too. Its hurting a lot.
A False complaint of Dowry and harassment has been filed in the police station near to her since i went to see my daughter and they ignored to visit my daughter. its her brother reason behind all these criminal efforts and washed my wife’s brain. let me know how can i sue him too so that i can get my wife and child back.
Please i request all you brothers to help me suggesting on this.
Brainwashing anyone is not a crime under IPC. So your case against her brother won’t have much chance.
For seeing child, you can approach child welfare committee (but they may try to compromise wife and you as their first solution), or file GWC (child custody) and ask for interim visitation orders.
wife filed petition for reveiw in session court in 498 a but not attending court
wife filed petition for reveiw in session court in 498 a but not appearing court
What can be done? Witness is like sarkari mehmaan (guest of govt)! You only have to wait it out
Meri bhabhi ne 2yrs k bad false 498a case file kiya.. police are supporting her.. sirf husband ka naam nhi ghar me se sabka naam dali he.. jo nhi raheta he uska bhi.. but police wale ko kuch farak nhi padta he..
Useless law for men.. how police wala is entertaining her after 2yrs.. how he is filing a case??
Her background is very bad.. phr police usse support kar rahi he..
UNBELIEVABLE…
SACHAI KA ZAMANA NHI HE.. INSAF KARNE WALE ANDHE.. BAHERE.. MUKKE HOGAYE HE
Yes heavily tilted law against male and very pro women But women of today are not angels anymore They are ( 40*) devil’s if first order Govt don’t have courage or guts to change modify improve law to.make it gender neutral Mental torture clause must go Much abused law
It’s time men rise
Sir, I filed RCR against my wife on june 2016, but till now nothing happened. She is trying to extend the case as long as possible. Only two times she appeared for counselling, otherwise her advocate filled time petition or convince the court that she is ill. On every date(except 1) I appeared in court. I have a private sector job, so it’s very tedious for me to attend the court.
My question is: is there any time limit to finalise the case?
can I appeal in upper court(high court) at this stage.
Please suggest me , A lot of thanks in advance.
Once you start living the timeless, there will be no problem of time limits đ
First 2 years is just the warm up phase in family courts.
My wife applied for divorce. Now I received only summon and not a statement or details attached for what reasons.
Weather i want to appear in court or i can request a statement copy from the court?
You have to go to court to get copy of petition. Written statement needs to be filed in court. Simply sitting at home is not right approach.
My wife filed a case under 498a from a city in jharkhand which is neither her home town nor mine whereas i stay in Delhi. We got summons by court.I like to know:
1. Since she filed a case in court and not an fir does it make any difference.
2. Will I be arrested if I will appear in court on the date of summon.
3. Lawyer said that my brother and mother will get anticipatory bail and my case will be send for mediation. Will I get arrested during mediation period. Can I say no to mediation at all
Please advice
Why not apply for quash of FIR since there is no jurisdiction in that town?
Most lawyers always love mediation and court appearances. Or maybe they don’t understand the straight path of law, or don’t want to try it because they have become fearful thinking no one can win against a woman’s complaint!
Hi same happening with me, first 125 crpc,then DV ,then divorce filed by me and now 156(3) by those jerks as they were trying to file police complain since they started there idiotic tricks in year 2015, but nothing happened as they had no document to backup there complains. That fooling mediation in 156(3) failed as i clearly stated that i will not continue the wedlock.
So now file of 156(3) is under chief judicial magistrate and those jerks are hoping some thing traumatic to happen with me and my family as they have filed the petition on grounds of 498a, 313, 323,307, 504,506 and dowry prohibition act.
So now cjm will order for FIR and cops will register it and investigate about matter, meanwhile the idiot lawyers of girl side will guide them to make arrest happen by bribing police,and will oppose the AB i have applied for.
Now the most important part… once you over come all this turbulent ,the ace is in your hand, and fight to the fullest on merits,..
M doing the same, all this is untolreable, and just for your inner conscience be true and respectfull to your self, dont fear the fake.
Respect your emotions.
My friend i feel you are very much brave and ready to fight the injustice done to you. it is very unfortunate the law and abiding agencies including the court not bothered to save innocent victims immediately and using the procedure to wreck the moral,health and finance of the husband and his family.By the time the judgement comes after may be in some cases after 5 to 6 years, all the damage done like waste of time, money, loss of job and values in the society. i pray the legislatures in the parliament has to wake up to save the Men, his family from this evil procedures.
498A, 323, 313, 377, 504, 506, 3/4 DP act
My wife filled 498A, 323, 313, 377, 504, 506, 3/4 DP act on me and my family members.
Currently the matter is in mediation.
I have few questions:
1. Can charge sheet be filled by investigation officer during mediation process? or he/she can submit his/her report only after mediation end?
2. After mediation what is next? what shall i do?
Don’t know what type of mediation it is or who is conducting it. Most mediations are husband-fooling-and-pressurizing-schemes and husbands can never get anything beneficial out of them
>>2. After mediation what is next? what shall i do?
How can anyone predict what will happen next? The process of law has been set in motion, so you have to wait it out. You can join our groups, but don’t join with expectations of anyone telling what exactly is going to happen 3 months or 1 year from now.
Hi,
I am in similar situation (Matter in state of UP) wherein my wife filed a complaint and the complaint was converted into FIR in less than a week and then the matter was referred to Mahila thana. I received notice for mediation from them. I talked to both police and lawyer and understood that until mediation is closed Police won’t be taking any actions but then it is India and almost anything can happen and one has to challenge and get the issues sorted.
Hi, My wife has filed false Dowry case and DV maintenance, We have one child and marriage of just 1 year.
We have appointed an advocate to fight the case but so far he has except reponding to caourt date done nothing in terms of petition or child visitation rights. I am NRI and he asked to sign vakalath nama and send, which we have done. We never explained us the process or his sstratigi to fight case. gives very little time to discuss and most of time very busy. Please help in m y case by advice what practical steps we will have to follow and can the vakalat naama be misused?
There is lot of free articles on this site, but if that hasn’t helped you to understand, OR more likely you didn’t bother to read much, then I am not sure what will but you can also read my maintenance book to understand court procedures, what to expect from lawyer etc, how to deal etc. More than that is difficult to reply on general type of questions. Also you can join the groups.
Lawyers generally are most reluctant to file child custody, so no surprises there. That actually is a sign husband wants to fight, and maybe lawyers want to avoid that situation, they want husband to capitulate and settle than fight it out.
I,got married in 2014 it was a love cum arrange marrige after 4 months wife left on her own accord. I did’nt filed for rcr .was just waiting for her to come back tried her numbers met her uncles and aunts and other members but she refused to come back infront of every one.
Since then me and my family was quiet as all her relatives said that they will calm her down and convince her to get back but she never heard to them also.
Now she and her father has filed fake maintenece and dv cases aginst me.a police complain was also filed but they found every thing untrue as the allegations made by her are100% fake and baseless same old templates like beaten up by me and my family in her own fathers house and misgarage took place bla bla and all bullshit.
I have filed for divorce on grounds of cruelty by her side and also raise issue of misgarage as she is away from me for last 1and half year so how culd she concieve.
I also have her working company name and address plus i also have a note book of hers which clearly shows that she has done a fulltime deautician course also.
All i need to ask is what are my chances in court to get her reality out and get her false cases rejected.
Outside court they are asking for 10lac. Which i have refused and will not compromise any how. As i dont have any mistake from my side.
We never asked for dowry as it was love marrige nor did they gave anything but now they are alleging that i demanded car and some cash for which they dont have any proof.on contarary i have few pics of her enjoying with friends.
So still court will act lamelessly and will give biased verdicts.
Pls reply
Regards
>>So still court will act lamelessly and will give biased verdicts.
I have observed that most husbands act lamelessly in front of courts, so in the end the courts’ orders are also in tune with that. It’s your job to produce all the evidence in right manner, and argue forcefully. And wait for the whole trial, things can’t happen in 2 years because we want to.
Thanks for your reply.
Visited court today for dv case ,she has filed. My copy of applications denying every fake allegation made by her has reached them dnt know wether some ratio of fear has inculcated in there mind or not. As all my staments are clear and straight. The day they mentioned ,she was beaten up to hell by me and my family, i have a clear evidence showing that on prescribed date i was not present there but was with my family at that time somewhere else.
Also i filed a rti request to get her travelling details but that is just in vain no replies from there..
Some one told me her father is just hidding in house for last one month and has left his work..
Dnt know whats cooking..
I have no hurry to wrap things up till my last breath.attributes to (mens right india.net)
Is there any chance that they will give up pshycologically..
>>Is there any chance that they will give up pshycologically..
you want to play the match, prediction of results can be done by astrologers or bookies
Match is on …
All i have is my merits and hope…
And yes all instructions from your blog thru which i got to reveal the real truth and show every one how fake and disrespectfull a girls family could b just for sake of greed..
Girls out there planning to file false cases shud stop as this will seriously get them nothing..
One more thing i came to know ,all those alleged claims by girls side ,when they dnt wrk like no arresst in 498a or dv case going in opposite direction ,which they never thought of, then also these idiots(girls side) dnt easily learn from it because of there ego and greed.
Now they have lodged a police complain stating that i have created some fake account by girls name on face book ,(which actually is totally wrong any ways)and my proofs of photograph that i have given in court are fake and were fabricated by me , hence this comes under cyber crime. So now all those alpha males call me to there office and questioned me wether all this is true or not .
My answer , if i give them (GIRLS SIDE) AND fullfill there demand of lacs of ruppess then its ok but if i dnt give them what they are prresurising me for then i am a criminal and they will keep on lodging complains and court pettions to terrorise me.
Imagine when nothing is wrkng a fake complain of cyber crime.
How cheap all those pimp families are.
Its the system it self who i supporting and making crime not us atleast readers of mens right indiaâş
>>How cheap all those pimp families are.
and I include into ‘cheap’ and ‘cowardly’ men (and their parents) who pay money to these pimp families, because they are losing ‘respect’ and precious time to fulfill their reproductive duty/destiny on planet earth.
The day when all men,start taking a stand rather than paying for something that never happened ..
Then only all these dowry seekers (these days actually girls and there family are seeking for dowry) which actually is a crime and girls are seeking it other way round . If men stop paying them this dowry, then only it will stop or else the things will go on and on. No one to be blamed.
And yes one more thing,compromise=mandavli.
So mandavli krne ka to swalich paida ni hota bhai.
????
Hi,
my wife also filed (after separation aug 2014) DV (nov 2014); U/S-9 (feb 2015) in family court and 498a (aug 2015) (me ,mother, father, 2 sis) cases. She is asking for money she spent (Salary 15 Lakh) while she is living with me and my family.
As she belongs to political family, police was having tremendous pressure to file charge sheet ASAP and i already spent 24 hrs u/s 151 in custody.
striddhan is in custody of police already u/s 498a case. She mention in her statement that she left home on her own with her parents.
all three cases having base of salary she spent at home no other evidence shown in any case.
i am having CDR of 1 year duration (Submitted with police in 498a and other cases), the late night SMS and call records with her office friend.
Guide me the case sequence she filed is valid or not and the return she want (15 Lakh salary) is coming under law?
>>Guide me the case sequence she filed is valid or not and the return she want (15 Lakh salary) is coming under law?
If you spent 2 lakh and she spent 15, that by itself may not become 498a cruelty but could make your situation suspicious. You can reverse the logic and ask why did she spend so much unless she was happy in the family.
Further guidance in our groups only.
Hi,
I got married 2 months back. After our wedding reception we notice that girl was suffering from mental illness. We reported to their family but they said either she is doing Drama or due to pressure of marriage her behavior is not normal. We believe that and tried to give some time when we saw no improvement in her mental condition after one week we went to a doctor and doctor gave the medicine, but there was no improvement in her mental problem. Again we went to another doctor he prescribed medicine but no improvement. After one month we took her one of famous mental doctor and as per mental record it shows the disease is from 10 years and disease is “Mood Disorder”.
After two months we did not see any improvement and we sent her to her parentsâ home. Now her parents is blaming us for her mental illness and threating for false dowry case. We have video recording and audio recording of her unusual behavior right after marriage.
What evidence i need collect to prove we are innocent and girl was suffering from mental illness prior to marriage? How can prepare myself to prove that we are innocent and we have been cheated by in law ?
Not sure what is mood disorder, but doesn’t seem serious enough to get divorce on grounds of mental illness. You can read my divorce book to understand more about divorce on grounds of mental disorder:
http://www.amazon.in/dp/B010IXOM02/ref=nosim?tag=menrigind-cm_div-21
For dowry case, you have to fight it on its own merits. Mixing up the issues won’t help.
Hi ,
My Wife is a Psycho patient(Behavioral Disorder diagnosed by Doctor) and has been harassing me for the last 2 years since married. After giving her multiple chances, she reverts back to old self and starts abusing and becomes violent with everyone in family including me. Now I have been living away from her and she was with her parents. Now, she filed 498, 406, 34 in police station and alongside talking about mutual divorce but wants me to come and file(Which is not necessary) so that she can issue the summon for maintenance etc. I am away from country and my family is also safely away in another location. Police called my family and told that they cannot issue summon to primary accused, hence they will report to the court accordingly and they do not have much against my family as the girl could not give any proof.
What according to esteemed lawyers/ legal professionals are the next logical steps from the legal side. I know certain instances when summons could not be issued, the case dies it’s natual death and the girl’s family comes to mutual divorce as case cannot be established due to police not able to investigate under section 41.
Basically, I do not want to fight the case in court and pay her maintenance and lawyer fees while she goes on fighting her entire life – primarily becasue she and her family is a cheat, she has done immence damage to my reputation as I had to leave my job of 10 years as she kept complaining to office and because of her, my old mother who is not well had to leave her house and stay somewhere else facing immense hardships. If she comes to one time settlement, I am fine and ready to leave her but these lawyers are giving her wrong advice as this type of cases are a good business for some. Psyco cases cannot be proven in court and the court takes linient view in such matters.
>>I know certain instances when summons could not be issued, the case dies itâs natual death
That’s called living in hope… you will be actually declared an absconder from Indian justice, don’t know what kind of legal advice you are taking from some morons.
Basically, you want to escape and need help on how to avoid even appearing in court! One time settlement is fine by you but of course it should not be exorbitant, and that’s why leaving this comment on men’s rights site hoping to find a way using online forums.
>>Psyco cases cannot be proven in court and the court takes linient view in such matters.
If you have given up hope in all cases then why waste others’ time? Read the maintenance and divorce books and try to evolve some better strategy.
http://www.amazon.in/dp/B00VCA7YDS/ref=nosim?tag=menrigind-cm_mnt-21
http://www.amazon.in/dp/B010IXOM02/ref=nosim?tag=menrigind-cm_div-21
My wife has left the house to her parents place and not returned for 2 months. I am still paying the rent to my house. My parents place is in the same city . What should I do . Still Continue to pay the rent indefinitely hoping she might return. I do not think she will return . Wife cleverly wants to make me initiate the separation process and land me in soup. She has left the house many times .Please advice how to tackle the situation.
It’s not about legal advice, it’s your personal life and personal decision… E.g. you didn’t ask some MRA or ‘advisor’ when your wife wanted to stay in a separate house from your parents. But now that she is treating it like a ‘dharmshala’, the rent starts pinching your pockets. You have to make your own decisions and stick to them.
Thanks for your comments sir . But one thing is financial , the other main aspect to this is how long to let her stay in parents place. Should I Ignore her presence at her parents place completely and continue with my work until she returns. Can she forcefully enter a locked rental apartment? What if she deliberately does not return even after 5 months . Kindly advice on what would be the consequence of me sending her a written notice (not legal one ) and await her reply. is it a good thing to do ? please advice.
These things are not like preparing for a multiple choice question/answer exam. Join the groups, else you will keep asking on multiple online forums and trying to ‘average’ out the suggestions of others.
If she has gone let her go just try to gather proofs of her income and her activities she is indulged in these days.
Dnt call her up asking to come back.
Just act smartly on your path and try to gather all her on going activity proofs an especially if she is wrkng ,gather all those details and wait for there reaction .patience will pay dividends dnt let her know abt your bank a/c or assets if she knows it then delibrately transfer all those to ur parents name.
Keep calm and wait for there reaction.
And yes what your are doing and what all thru u r being thru get started with keeping all those records also.
This all will help further if they try to sue you,
Hopefully not, but prepare your self such a way that you are in a position to give them the taste of there on medicine.
I am not talking about revenge or vengence but a strong u.
I can’t speak English correctly. I want to advice in hindi . Plz give me advice I am victim in fake rape case .
Three phones of volunteers are given on every page at top right which says Hindi, you can call them
Hi Sir,
My name is xxx. Am from Bangalore. My wife is screwing up My life.
First she said, she will give divorse if I psy her 8 lav, kater she demanded for 10 lac. Now she filed a domestic voilence case on me.
I am blank. Plz help me
Why not call and join the groups?
Proud and self-reliant men when faced with a difficult wife, act all helpless!
Sir my name is Surjit rajput from Belgaum Karnataka ,
In 2014 I got decree of divorce my mutual consent form my wife by given her permanent alimony , I am having a daughter age 11 staying with her , now I have filed a custody petition after knowing that my wife has kept affair with many people ,I want to put my daughter in some good residential school ,
My wife has again put a mantainance petition within one year .
What should I do pls help
How much alimony did you pay for MCD? What was the agreement about child custody and visitation in MCD?
After divorce, ex-wife can’t have ‘affair’? The custody petition won’t have much merit unless you an prove wife’s behaviour will be detrimental to child.
If you are interested, suggest to contact at 98457 46684 and request for paid guidance, we are no longer giving free guidance in such cases, where someone has compromised or given alimony/money himself, and now wants to get the benefits which should logically come to those who stand against this compromise culture.
Findings in a Civil Court are superior to Criminal Courts for same set of complaints. This means if wife has filed for Divorce or RCR or Annulment or is contesting your case of same type and tells something first in her affidavit and then goes out and files a criminal complaint later on with slightly or greatly modified affidavit contents (some even contradicting earlier submissions) then the Criminal complain can be easily stayed or crippled citing “suppression of facts” in the first Civil case.
As the standard of evidence required for Civil cases are much lower than Criminal cases (just weight of evidence and balance of probabilities is sufficient to establish the truth of your claims) any wife who is UNABLE to prove her claim with minimal standard of evidence is obviously not going to be able to prove the same in another Criminal or 2nd Civil case elsewhere. So thats an obvious grounds for High Court or Supreme Court to order a stay and/or quash under CrPC 482.
By law a petitioner in any Criminal / Civil / Family Court is supposed to reveal ALL facts about a complaint or case in the FIRST version of the petition / affidavit that is submitted. Any other cases or complaints filed subsequently must be consistent with the first complaint if they are about the same set of topics like most matrimonial cases usually are – dispute between husband and wife. If anyone adds more details to the original version of the complaint / affidavit / petition in a subsequent case (that are claimed to have happened before the first case itself was filed) then it amounts to suppression of facts in first case as he/she could have revealed the same set of facts in the FIRST petition filed. Such a petitioner is said to have come to court with unclean hands – suppression of any materially relevant details is an offence and the first court hearing the case can deny the petitioner any benefits that is claimed.
Example: Wife files Annulment or Divorce and asks husband for settlement in private. Upon refusal or contest by husband, she files a DV case or 498a case and adds more masala complaint to the original version or gives a completely different version but refers to dates and places that are BEFORE the date of the first family court petition for Annulment or Divorce. In such a case check if the first petition also reveals the same set of complaint in exactly same format. If not, then its a fraud in both cases and wife will loose them simply due to this discrepency – eventually – once the judges are informed of the same in your reply affidavits.
Golden rule: a person cannot file two cases at same time using same set of complaints against same or similar set or people. This is not allowed by law and court rulings – dual litigation is a problem for the person making the complaint as the first court will obviously ask why he/she went on to file the second complaint or petition in first place instead of asking it for relief. Anything said in reply by the petitioner will appear like an afterthought anyways !
Hi..
This is really helpful.
Please clarify:
Wife filed 498a with a few accusations. It’s still in investigation stage. So if she adds some other allegations which aren’t part of the initial FIR..does this amounts to suppression of facts? Or will it be filed as a new FIR?
And normally how much weightage these new stories carry?
Regards..
It can be used to deflate her story at her cross-exam and arguments stage
Note: People can join our groups, no further replies will be given to comments.